Comments on: Music in church: how much is too much? http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/ faith - technology - culture Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:34:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: shawnwhttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-35288 shawnw Sun, 02 Jan 2011 17:03:00 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-35288 Interesting take on the church's purpose in the world. Let's not forget, for those that don't know him and for those that have known him for decades, it's also about understanding the character of God. Thanks for the comment! Interesting take on the church's purpose in the world. Let's not forget, for those that don't know him and for those that have known him for decades, it's also about understanding the character of God.

Thanks for the comment!

]]> By: Maryjanehttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-35287 Maryjane Sun, 02 Jan 2011 07:26:00 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-35287 Church is a place to gather in the Name of Jesus..a place where one can be saved..healed..delivered..comforted..and to receive a message from God..Music is not the focal point..it was not in the beginning of the church and the early christians sang together..there was no special music be fore the Lord spoke nor was there a praise band..Churches are failing due to compromise..to try to be a place where one is entertained more than to receive a message of salvation..Too many times the praise leaders are heard more than the congregation due to their sound systems..songs are not familiar nor do many of them have good content in them..it is more a show than a worship..and worship is not what many think it is..I be lieve with all my heart..church is like the friends who lowered their friend from the roof that he could be healed..not to hear a concert or to sing lines over and over again..but to take a friend to where they knew he would be healed and that is what church should be.. Church is a place to gather in the Name of Jesus..a place where one can be saved..healed..delivered..comforted..and to receive a message from God..Music is not the focal point..it was not in the beginning of the church and the early christians sang together..there was no special music be fore the Lord spoke nor was there a praise band..Churches are failing due to compromise..to try to be a place where one is entertained more than to receive a message of salvation..Too many times the praise leaders are heard more than the congregation due to their sound systems..songs are not familiar nor do many of them have good content in them..it is more a show than a worship..and worship is not what many think it is..I be lieve with all my heart..church is like the friends who lowered their friend from the roof that he could be healed..not to hear a concert or to sing lines over and over again..but to take a friend to where they knew he would be healed and that is what church should be..

]]> By: Pablohttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-35116 Pablo Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:50:39 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-35116 "I think we all need to stop, take stock of where we are and who *we* can influence, and simply focus on loving those that we come in contact with day in and day out."That sentence you wrote is exactly what lead me to search the topic online... leading me to your post.A few weeks ago, a Jewish female came to Christ after much battle and prayer. After the celebration, I looked for a church in her city and asked her to attend the Sunday of that very week-- she wanted to hear more of the Word of God.I awaited her phone call, so she could share what she learned after visiting. We have to remember that being Jewish, she had never stepped in a modern Christian church before.I'm quoting her as faithfully as I remember, "I went on the wrong day. It was a rock concert, so I stepped out." I told her that it was Satan that found a way for her not to be there. She then said, "Pablo, if I want to hear a rock concert, I can pay to hear much better music; and I'm not always in the mood for rock."Now... I live in Chicago. My service on Sunday is as follows: 9am - traditional service (where only the piano is played)11:30am- contemporary service (where a contemporary band plays)Both of these services consist of more 'worship' than God's Meat, which is the Word. And the church has been *divided* because the young people will not 'worship' in the traditional service, and the older folks cannot stand the loudness of the contemporary. Does this seem normal, or Godly? A church divided for music???She lives in California, I live in Chicago, and I don't know where you live, but you started this thread. You can't still be convinced that, "I think it's just as dangerous to assume every church has replaced God with music." -- this *is* going on in every church. Music is an integral/focal component of the service. Let's inquire of the Word, brother Shawn, because I think we should give God his place in this conversation (capitalizing in lieu of bold):John 4:32 - But he said unto them, I have MEAT to eat that ye know not of.Matthew 24:45 - Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them MEAT in due season? John 6:55 - For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:27 - Labour not for the MEAT which perisheth, but for that MEAT which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Ok, so again; Scripture says Jesus, who is the Word (John ch1), is the Meat. We feed our Spirit with Meat.Now, this is crucial:Malachi 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be MEAT in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I know you know this Scripture very well, because it is what modern preachers use to collect *money*. God doesn't need money, he wants your tithe... from your Gift, that he gave you. In modern days, musicianship is one of the most valued gifts. Prophecy, healing, discernment of spirits... all of those are done away with. We want new believers to make them sing in the pew; not to help them grow their gifts. We travel to places far off in the world, preach "Jesus saves", and establish singer colonies-- so they can recruit more tithing singers. Taxed singers.When was the last time you knew who to go to when your aunt was sick? That Sister would put her hands on your aunt and she would be healed. That's what God intended to be going on in his house!!! Besides many, many other things.Look at what previously is written in before Malachi 3:10 7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.Brother in the Lord, my brother Shawn in Christ. The world has nothing to do with God. God has given his people gifts, and they do not tithe. The people in the pews with those gifts are all clapping and dancing. They are not discerning spirits, prophesying or healing the sick! You have to remember that Prophecy is something you need a divinity degree to *study*; not do. Satan doesn't like us working. This is Satanic. All of it is Satanic.And instead of standing up to the powers that have subdued God's people and saying, "LET MY PEOPLE GO." ... we follow along. We're to scared to read, although now you understand. We're too scared to sell our riches, give to the poor, and follow Jesus.Now you know what to do. I know it's hard to be like Moses and leave Egypt behind. You're rich; music is a big part of your life. You are saved by the blood of Jesus, brother, but we have to enter the kingdom, so we can labor for him and leave our riches behind. You will make instant enemies within your very church.Matthew 19:24 - And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -PabloFormer Church Musician and Concert PianistPreviously Lost to the World. Saved March 2008 "I think we all need to stop, take stock of where we are and who *we* can influence, and simply focus on loving those that we come in contact with day in and day out."That sentence you wrote is exactly what lead me to search the topic online… leading me to your post.A few weeks ago, a Jewish female came to Christ after much battle and prayer. After the celebration, I looked for a church in her city and asked her to attend the Sunday of that very week– she wanted to hear more of the Word of God.I awaited her phone call, so she could share what she learned after visiting. We have to remember that being Jewish, she had never stepped in a modern Christian church before.I'm quoting her as faithfully as I remember, "I went on the wrong day. It was a rock concert, so I stepped out." I told her that it was Satan that found a way for her not to be there. She then said, "Pablo, if I want to hear a rock concert, I can pay to hear much better music; and I'm not always in the mood for rock."Now… I live in Chicago. My service on Sunday is as follows: 9am – traditional service (where only the piano is played)11:30am- contemporary service (where a contemporary band plays)Both of these services consist of more 'worship' than God's Meat, which is the Word. And the church has been *divided* because the young people will not 'worship' in the traditional service, and the older folks cannot stand the loudness of the contemporary. Does this seem normal, or Godly? A church divided for music???She lives in California, I live in Chicago, and I don't know where you live, but you started this thread. You can't still be convinced that, "I think it's just as dangerous to assume every church has replaced God with music." — this *is* going on in every church. Music is an integral/focal component of the service. Let's inquire of the Word, brother Shawn, because I think we should give God his place in this conversation (capitalizing in lieu of bold):John 4:32 – But he said unto them, I have MEAT to eat that ye know not of.Matthew 24:45 – Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them MEAT in due season? John 6:55 – For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:27 – Labour not for the MEAT which perisheth, but for that MEAT which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Ok, so again; Scripture says Jesus, who is the Word (John ch1), is the Meat. We feed our Spirit with Meat.Now, this is crucial:Malachi 3:10 – Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be MEAT in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I know you know this Scripture very well, because it is what modern preachers use to collect *money*. God doesn't need money, he wants your tithe… from your Gift, that he gave you. In modern days, musicianship is one of the most valued gifts. Prophecy, healing, discernment of spirits… all of those are done away with. We want new believers to make them sing in the pew; not to help them grow their gifts. We travel to places far off in the world, preach "Jesus saves", and establish singer colonies– so they can recruit more tithing singers. Taxed singers.When was the last time you knew who to go to when your aunt was sick? That Sister would put her hands on your aunt and she would be healed. That's what God intended to be going on in his house!!! Besides many, many other things.Look at what previously is written in before Malachi 3:10 7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.Brother in the Lord, my brother Shawn in Christ. The world has nothing to do with God. God has given his people gifts, and they do not tithe. The people in the pews with those gifts are all clapping and dancing. They are not discerning spirits, prophesying or healing the sick! You have to remember that Prophecy is something you need a divinity degree to *study*; not do. Satan doesn't like us working. This is Satanic. All of it is Satanic.And instead of standing up to the powers that have subdued God's people and saying, "LET MY PEOPLE GO." … we follow along. We're to scared to read, although now you understand. We're too scared to sell our riches, give to the poor, and follow Jesus.Now you know what to do. I know it's hard to be like Moses and leave Egypt behind. You're rich; music is a big part of your life. You are saved by the blood of Jesus, brother, but we have to enter the kingdom, so we can labor for him and leave our riches behind. You will make instant enemies within your very church.Matthew 19:24 – And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -PabloFormer Church Musician and Concert PianistPreviously Lost to the World. Saved March 2008

]]> By: shawnwhttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-35115 shawnw Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:33:42 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-35115 Pablo, thanks for the comment!It's certainly dangerous when music replaces God in church. I think it's just as dangerous to assume every church has replaced God with music.Every church has problems. The church is made up of humans and humans are broken. Instead of worrying about the bigger picture, I think we all need to stop, take stock of where we are and who *we* can influence, and simply focus on loving those that we come in contact with day in and day out.It's also important to love "the least of these." That's who God came to save.Lots of problems and few solutions, my friend, but God is good, all the time. Pablo, thanks for the comment!It's certainly dangerous when music replaces God in church. I think it's just as dangerous to assume every church has replaced God with music.Every church has problems. The church is made up of humans and humans are broken. Instead of worrying about the bigger picture, I think we all need to stop, take stock of where we are and who *we* can influence, and simply focus on loving those that we come in contact with day in and day out.It's also important to love "the least of these." That's who God came to save.Lots of problems and few solutions, my friend, but God is good, all the time.

]]> By: Pablohttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-35114 Pablo Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:31:13 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-35114 I grew up taking piano and flute lessons. At 13, I started playing in church. I also played at church during my college music career-- I knew the hymnal books pretty well, and felt a 'high' and 'came into the spirit' when performing.After my piano performance degree, I decided God did not exist.Ten years after being away from church, I read something by chance and believed in Jesus, for the very first time. I had a hunger for the Word and the Word replaced what I had previously found in music. The Word became my music-- the Word is the most gorgeous music I've ever heard.I'm now convincted Satan has had his way in church: 30mins of music before the sermon, 20 minutes of actual reading (among other weekly announcements, etc) and then another 30 minutes of music to close the service.In other words, the average church service is really a concert where they read at the intermission.I know this is going to anger you; How dare someone speak badly of your toy? Besides, you're worshiping God and you've built your life around it. You can also find plenty in the Psalms and other citations to support this lifestyle.Music is a very, very powerful force. It can carry and take you away into places you never thought existed. But as far as you can go, it pales in comparison to where God can take your Spirit. Music stimulates the senses; it goes after the flesh. There's a difference between picking up and instrument and spontaneously playing something out of a spirit of worship, and making a ritual out of it-- indulging the flesh, which is insatiable.If Satan was not subtle, sublime and attractive, NO ONE would follow him. But he's more popular than any rock star, and you can see how he has made the church service a cookie-cutter format revolving around music-- music, is the power he has used to mesmerize and transform the world; everyone has an ipod, radio, CD player, etc. He also backs up his claims for music in the church with scripture. He's unbeatable.Look around and see how weak the church is these days. Porn abounds, usury is called 'credit', and killing is approved by God in Afghanistan. We cannot speak up against these things, because we have been bought... with things that feel good. We are 'rich' and we're not giving up our riches, no matter what. No matter what.Luke 18:22 - Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. I grew up taking piano and flute lessons. At 13, I started playing in church. I also played at church during my college music career– I knew the hymnal books pretty well, and felt a 'high' and 'came into the spirit' when performing.After my piano performance degree, I decided God did not exist.Ten years after being away from church, I read something by chance and believed in Jesus, for the very first time. I had a hunger for the Word and the Word replaced what I had previously found in music. The Word became my music– the Word is the most gorgeous music I've ever heard.I'm now convincted Satan has had his way in church: 30mins of music before the sermon, 20 minutes of actual reading (among other weekly announcements, etc) and then another 30 minutes of music to close the service.In other words, the average church service is really a concert where they read at the intermission.I know this is going to anger you; How dare someone speak badly of your toy? Besides, you're worshiping God and you've built your life around it. You can also find plenty in the Psalms and other citations to support this lifestyle.Music is a very, very powerful force. It can carry and take you away into places you never thought existed. But as far as you can go, it pales in comparison to where God can take your Spirit. Music stimulates the senses; it goes after the flesh. There's a difference between picking up and instrument and spontaneously playing something out of a spirit of worship, and making a ritual out of it– indulging the flesh, which is insatiable.If Satan was not subtle, sublime and attractive, NO ONE would follow him. But he's more popular than any rock star, and you can see how he has made the church service a cookie-cutter format revolving around music– music, is the power he has used to mesmerize and transform the world; everyone has an ipod, radio, CD player, etc. He also backs up his claims for music in the church with scripture. He's unbeatable.Look around and see how weak the church is these days. Porn abounds, usury is called 'credit', and killing is approved by God in Afghanistan. We cannot speak up against these things, because we have been bought… with things that feel good. We are 'rich' and we're not giving up our riches, no matter what. No matter what.Luke 18:22 – Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

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]]> By: Adamhttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-8971 Adam Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:02:34 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-8971 I wouldn't change it. Some nights I'll be praying through the entire set. Other times, maybe 1-3 songs...just depends. But, I don't think alot of people are necessarily checking out. I know sometimes, I'll go out to the atrium and just reflect on the sermon, maybe talk to someone else out there in the atrium too. You never know when there is someone in the congregation that really needs that entire time with God; the person that came to Church beat-up and broken-down (emotionally) that wants nothing more than time at the altar for as long as the music plays. Honestly though, I wouldn't listen to any of our opinions. Take it to God , ask Him what is appropriate. I wouldn't change it. Some nights I'll be praying through the entire set. Other times, maybe 1-3 songs…just depends. But, I don't think alot of people are necessarily checking out. I know sometimes, I'll go out to the atrium and just reflect on the sermon, maybe talk to someone else out there in the atrium too.

You never know when there is someone in the congregation that really needs that entire time with God; the person that came to Church beat-up and broken-down (emotionally) that wants nothing more than time at the altar for as long as the music plays.

Honestly though, I wouldn't listen to any of our opinions. Take it to God , ask Him what is appropriate.

]]> By: Erinhttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-8970 Erin Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:53:06 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-8970 I love to worship. I sometimes feel like we do not let the spirt lead enough. I've heard a comment from someone she said she wanted to pray and had it on her heart to pray for several people but was not able to concentrate. Your going to find we're all different and mixing it up a bit doesn't hurt a thing. I grew up singing at the begining, and then listening to the word. I kind of like having the songs at the end. Rocking it out at church is awesome. What does God want? I love to worship. I sometimes feel like we do not let the spirt lead enough. I've heard a comment from someone she said she wanted to pray and had it on her heart to pray for several people but was not able to concentrate. Your going to find we're all different and mixing it up a bit doesn't hurt a thing. I grew up singing at the begining, and then listening to the word. I kind of like having the songs at the end. Rocking it out at church is awesome. What does God want?

]]> By: Jakehttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-8958 Jake Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:13:11 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-8958 I always felt we needed more than 1 song at the opening. I actually thought last night (2/8) was great. It set the tone for the night. You could acutally hear the group singing over the band, that's rare. I beleive a balance of before and after with songs matching the mood of the lesson would be great. As always, not everyone will be happy every night. Sometimes we forget the worship music isn't about us... I always felt we needed more than 1 song at the opening. I actually thought last night (2/8) was great. It set the tone for the night. You could acutally hear the group singing over the band, that's rare. I beleive a balance of before and after with songs matching the mood of the lesson would be great. As always, not everyone will be happy every night. Sometimes we forget the worship music isn't about us…

]]> By: Breezyhttp://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-8937 Breezy Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:11:24 +0000 http://shawnw.org/music-in-church-how-much-is-too-much/#comment-8937 Wow great question and great responses, I agree with everyone's comments. The flow, the suggestion about telling people to feel free to leave now or stay for extended music worship. I think music prepares the heart to receive God's word. It helps you let go of distracting things and concentrate on God. There is no way to please everyone all the time. I like all kinds of music, but I feel our church performs too many HARD ROCK Christian songs back to back. I would like to hear some softer, reverent songs.. mix it up a little more. I know it is hard for Sr citizens to stand through long music periods, where the younger crowd will stand the whole time with raised hands, but again making a comment letting everyone to feel free to stand or sit makes the ones that don't want to stand feel more at ease. Hopefully the music director and pastor can get a feel how the flow is working.,, and like Toby said if it is working don't change. Wow great question and great responses, I agree with everyone's comments. The flow, the suggestion about telling people to feel free to leave now or stay for extended music worship. I think music prepares the heart to receive God's word. It helps you let go of distracting things and concentrate on God. There is no way to please everyone all the time. I like all kinds of music, but I feel our church performs too many HARD ROCK Christian songs back to back. I would like to hear some softer, reverent songs.. mix it up a little more. I know it is hard for Sr citizens to stand through long music periods, where the younger crowd will stand the whole time with raised hands, but again making a comment letting everyone to feel free to stand or sit makes the ones that don't want to stand feel more at ease. Hopefully the music director and pastor can get a feel how the flow is working.,, and like Toby said if it is working don't change.

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